Mrs. BOLTON. Well, who is?

Mr. JONKMAN. By implication, you are.

Mrs. BOLTON. Well, not at all. Perhaps you like the bill the other way?

Chairman BLOOM. If you read that, Mr. Jonkman, how can you say that a Member of the House should be appointed and at the rate of $12,000 per annum?

Mr. JONKMAN. I do not say he should be appointed.

Chairman BLOOM. Well, if you say that the Senate amendment, section (c), should be approved by the House, this is the Senate amendment that Mr. Jonkman suggests we approve

Mr. CRAWFORD [committee clerk, reading]:

Subsection 2(c), as amended in the Senate bill;

"(c) The President by and with the consent of the Senate may appoint from time to time to attend a designated session or designated sessions of the General Assembly of the United Nations not to exceed five representatives of the United States, one of whom shall be designated as the senior representative. Such representatives shall each be entitled to receive compensation at the rate of $12,000 per annum for such period of appointment as the President may specify." SENATE AMENDMENT'S CONSTITUTIONALITY DENIED

Chairman BLOOM. Now, according to debates that have been held here all morning, I think that is absolutely unconstitutional and illegal.

Mr. FLOOD. Will the gentleman yield to me, Mr. Chairman? Mr. Jonkman, I think I tried to make my position clear. In my mind, there is absolutely no doubt whatsoever that the Senate bill, as we received it, is unconstitutional, first, because of the Senate confirmation provisions; second, because of the emolument provisions.

There is no doubt in my mind that it creates a civil office under the meaning of the Constitution and is therefore unconstitutional.

Mr. JONKMAN. Why? You mean, assuming that he appoints a Member of Congress? Oh, well, I am eliminating that. I say you cannot I do it.

Chairman BLOOM. As far as Members of Congress are concerned, it is out.

PRESIDENTIAL AUTHORITY OVER DELEGATES

Mr. RYTER. I would like to ask something of Dr. Pasvolsky to clear up a point. Our representative on the Economic and Social Council and on the Trusteeship Council must act in accordance with the directive of the President?

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Yes. I would like to clear that up

Chairman BLOOM. There is only one vote involved here, Mr. Ryter. Mr. RYTER. Well, the Senate claimed that since our representative was bound by the directive of the President in casting the votes in the General Assembly, that there would be a distinction between [that and] the casting of the votes of our representative in the Trusteeship and in the Economic Council.

Mr. WADSWORTH. No, any representative of the United States in any of the organs or agencies, it says, must follow the direction of the President.

Mr. RYTER. Both sections.

71-567-76- -13

Mrs. BOLTON. Mr. Chairman, it seems to me that the cause of our confusion is very simple: We are trying to do an impossible thing. The bill that is before us comes to us without any regard whatsoever for Members of Congress. It does not make a continental bit of difference in this bill. They are not considered by the bill. They are representatives of the United States.

We have intruded in our discussions, as I feel it at the moment, the question as to whether, under this bill, or under any bill, Members of Congress can be appointed to this thing. And that brings it to Mr. Morgan's point, that of incompatibility of office. And therefore the thing is clear to me.

Chairman BLOOM. In answer to you, I would like to have the clerk read the House bill with reference to the statements made by Mrs. Bolton.

Mr. CRAWFORD [reading]. On page 3 of the House bill is this specific reference, starting with line 25 on page 2:

Provided, That the advice and consent of the Senate shall be required for the appointment of any person to represent the United States in the Economic and Social Council or in the Trusteeship Council of the United Nations if the person so appointed is not at the time of such appointment a member of the Senate or House of Representatives of the United States or an officer of the United States who shall have been appointed by and with the consent of the Senate.

Mr. KEE. And that indicates what I was claiming a while ago. Mr. RYTER. Mr. Chairman, the answer of Dr. Pasvolsky is very clear, because he must cast his vote in accordance with the directive of the President. So what the Senate said there does not amount toin the words of Mrs. Bolton-a continental.

DELEGATES' POWERS DIFFERENTIATED

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Mr. Chairman, I think it is rather important in this connection to bring out this point: that as regards the Security Council, decisions can be made by the Security Council-decisions for action. As regards the General Assembly and the organs established under the General Assembly, which would be the Economic and Social Council and the Trusteeship Council, there is no provision for action. There is provision only for recommendation to the governments.

Therefore, the two cases are not comparable as to the point of power exercised by the U.S. representatives. Therefore, I think that in the case of Economic and Social Council-or first, the Assembly-and second, the Economic and Social Council, and third the Trusteeship Council the votes that will be cast will be votes for recommendations to be made to governments. I think that may have a bearing. Mr. RYTER. But you ignore entirely section 3.

Mr. PASVOLSKY. I am referring to section 3, Congressman. Section 3 relates to the casting of votes and the instructions to be given by the President of the United States. In the case of these representatives which are provided for in section 2, section 2 (c) and (d), the votes which are cast are votes and recommendations rather than votes and action. This is not a legislative body.

Mrs. BOLTON. But they are still votes, which reflect the view not of the United States but of the President of the United States.

Mr. PASVOLSKY. Yes, reflecting the point of view of the President of the United States, in the same way as when international negotiations are conducted.

ACTION TABLED; MR. ACHESON TO BE RECALLED

Chairman BLOOM. The Chair would like to make a statement. We are a way out, over our heads on this thing, and I would like to suggest that we recess until tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock and have Dean Acheson come here with Mr. Hackworth or Ben Cohen,11 or whomever he can bring, and sit in executive session and find out about these things.

Invitation to Locate the Seat of the United Nations

Organization in the United States

(H. Con. Res. 75, 79th Cong., 1st Sess.)

Chairman BLOOM. Before we adjourn, we have a resolution here. This is House Concurrent Resolution 75.

It has been stated that our Government should refrain from voting or taking any part in the proceedings to invite the representatives of the United Nations Organization to come to the United States and hold their permanent headquarters here. They are using that on the other side, because we have refrained from voting or doing anything as far as the Government is concerned.

Mr. Case has this simple resolution, a concurrent resolution:

Resolved by the House of Representatives, Senate concurring, that the United Nations be and hereby are invited to locate the seat of the United Nations Organization within the United States of America.

All those in favor of that will signify by saying "aye."

[Whereupon, the motion was put to a vote and unanimously carried.] Mr. JOHNSON. I move we adjourn, then, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman BLOOM. The transcript of this meeting today will be available to you tomorrow morning, so we can know on what it is that we disagree.

Ten o'clock tomorrow morning, please.

[Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., Monday, December 10, 1945, the committee adjourned, to reconvene Tuesday, December 11, 1945, at 10 a.m.]

11 Green H. Hackworth was Legal Adviser to the Secretary of State. Benjamin V. Cohen served as Counselor of the Department, Department of State, 1945-47.

PARTICIPATION BY THE UNITED STATES IN THE UNITED NATIONS ORGANIZATION

(S. 1580, 79th Cong., 1st Sess.)

TUESDAY, DECEMBER 11, 1945

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS, Washington, D.C.

The committee met at 10 a.m., Hon. Sol Bloom (chairman) presiding.

Chairman BLOOM. The committee will kindly come to order for the consideration of H.R. 4618 and S. 1580.

We have with us this morning the Under Secretary of State, Mr. Dean Acheson.

The question came up yesterday with reference to the matter of instruction of the delegates by the President.

Will you give us some explanation of that, Mr. Secretary?

STATEMENT OF HON. DEAN ACHESON, UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE

Mr. ACHESON. That is section 3, Mr. Chairman?

Chairman BLOOM. Yes.

Mr. ACHESON. Section 3 provides that:

The representatives provided for in section 2 hereof, when representing the United States in the respective organs and agencies of the United Nations shall at all times act in accordance with the instructions of the President, transmitted by the Secretary of the United States, unless other means of transmission is directed by the President, and such representatives shall, in accordance with such instructions, cast any and all votes under the Charter of the United Nations.

That provision was one which was very strongly insisted upon at the meetings of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations. They thought it was absolutely essential that the representatives both in the General Assembly and on the Security Council, as well as the representatives on the Social and Economic Council and on the Trusteeship Council, should act in accordance with the constitutional provision that the President is in charge of the foreign relations of the United States.

And if you had some free-wheeling delegates who went off on their ideas, you would get into great confusion and go contra to the established ideas of the Constitution and any orderly way of proceeding in international affairs.

They feel very strongly about that.