to make war; which we could by no means consent to de; and which would absolutely transcend our powers; being an act altogether without the view and contemplation of our government, when our mission was decided on: that with respect to supplies to St. Domingo, no doubt could be entertained that our merchants would furnish them very abundantly, if France would permit the commerce; and a loan really payable after the close of the war, might then be negotiated. Mr. Talleyrand again marked the distinction between silence of instructions and an express prohibition; and again insisted on the necessity of our proving, by some means which we must offer, our friendship for the Republick. He said, he must exact from us, on the part of his government, some proposition of this sort; that to prove our friendship, there must be some immediate aid, or something which might avail them; that the principles of reciprocity would require it. General Pinckney and general Marshall understood him, by this expression, to allude to the loan formerly made by France to the United States. Mr. Gerry, at the time, thought he alluded to the treaty to be made; and said, all treaties should be founded in reciprocity: and then asked him, whether a loan was the ultimatum of this government. Mr. Talleyrand did not give a direct answer to the question: he said, as he was understood, that the government insisted on some act which would demonstrate our friendly disposition towards, and our good wishes for the Republick; this once done, he said, the adjustment of complaints would be easy; that would be matter of inquiry; and if France had done us wrong, it would be repaired. But that if this was refused, it would increase the distance and coldness between the two republicks. The conversation continued in this style until four o'clock, when we took our leave, and agreed to meet in the evening.

In the course of it, and in reply to some observations of Mr. Talleyrand, respecting the proofs of friendship required by France, general Pinckney observed, that our being here was a mark of the friendly disposition of our government, and that while we were here, the government had passed a decree for seizing neutral vessels having on board any article coming out of England; which in its operation would subject to capture all our property on the

ocean. Mr. Talleyrand replied, that this was not particular to us, but was common to all the neutral powers. At another time, in answer to his demand of some mark of our friendship, general Marshall observed, that we considered the mutual interests of the two nations as requiring peace and friendship; and we relied on finding sufficient motives in the interest of France, to preserve that friendship; without forcing us to an act which transcended our powers, and would be so injurious to our country. As we were taking our leave, Mr. Talleyrand again noticed our not visiting him and said, that he conceived our not having had an audience from the directory ought not to have prevented it. General Marshall told him, that our seeing the directory, or not, was an object of no sort of concern to us; that we were perfectly indifferent with regard to it; but that we conceived that until our publick character was in some degree recognised, and we were treated as the ministers and representatives of our government, we could not take upon ourselves to act as ministers; because by doing so, we might subject ourselves to some injurious circumstance to which we could not submit. He said that was very true; but that we might see him as private individuals; and discuss the objects of difference between us.

We requested of Mr. Talleyrand another interview, at such hour as might be convenient to him, on the sixth instant. He answered, that he would receive us at half past eleven; at which hour we attended him.

Immediately after our arrival at his office, we were introduced to the minister; and general Pinckney stated, that we had considered, with the most serious attention, the conversation we had had the honour of holding with him a few days past: that the propositions he had suggested, appeared to us to be substantially the same with those which had been made by Mr. X. by Mr. Y. and also to Mr. Gerry, with an intention that they should be communicated to his colleagues; that we considered it as a proposition, that the United States should furnish aid to France, to be used during the present war: that though it was unusual to disclose instructions, yet we would declare to him, that in addition to its being a measure amounting to a declaration of war against Great Britain,

we were expressly forbidden by our instructions to take such a step.

The minister said, in the tone of a question, he supposed our instructions were, to do nothing which would amount to a departure from our neutrality.

General Pinckney said, that we were so instructed, and that they were still more particular. Mr. Talleyrand then proceeded to argue, that it would be no departure from neutrality, to stipulate a loan payable after the war : and spoke of it clearly as admitting of application to immediate use. He said a good deal of the secrecy with which the transaction might be clothed; and observed further, that a loan payable after the war would be a proof of our faithful observance of the duties of neutrality; since it would be considered as proving that we had rejected propositions for an immediate loan. General Marshall replied, that we thought differently; that in our opinion, any act, on the part of the American government, on which one of the belligerent powers could raise money for immediate use, would be furnishing aid to that power, and would be taking part in the war. It would be, in fact, to take the only part which, in the existing state of things, America could take. This was our deliberate opinion; and in addition to it, we considered our instructions as conclusive on this point.

He observed, that we had claims on the French government, for property taken from American citizens. Some of those claims were probably just. He asked, if they were acknowledged by France, whether we could not give a credit as to the payment-say for two years? We answered that we could. He then insisted that it was precisely the same thing; that by such an act, we should consent to leave in the hands of France, funds to which our citizens were entitled, and which might be used in the prosecution of the war. General Pinckney said there was a difference between the cases; that such prizes were now actually in the power of the French, without our consent; we could not prevent it or get them out; but the granting or not granting a loan was in our own power. He repeated his observation; and general Marshall said, that the property for which money was due to American citizens from the French government, was taken into the possession of that government, without any co-operation on

the part of the United States. No act of any sort was performed by our government, which in any degree contributed to place those funds in the hands of France, nor was there any consent towards it; but in the case proposed, the act would be the act of the government; the government would itself place funds in the hands of France, and thereby furnish means which might be employed in the prosecution of the war. This was the distinction between the cases, and in a question of neutrality, it appeared to us to be all important.-The minister then proceeded to state the case of our assuming the debt of our citizens, and of paying the money in that manner; but general Pinckney and Mr. Gerry told him we were. positively forbidden to assume the debt to our own citizens, even if we were to pay the money directly to them. He seemed surprised at this. General Pinckney observed, that contrary to usage, we had deemed it proper, in the existing state of things, to state candidly our powers to him, that he might know certainly that we could not secretly, or under any disguise whatever, make a loan which might be used during the war. Mr. Talleyrand said, he must resume his position, that there was a difference, which he must insist upon, between a loan payable immediately, and a loan payable in future; and he still insisted there was no difference between a loan payable in future, and a credit for the money which might be due to our citizens. Mr. Gerry observed, that his colleagues had justly stated the distinction between the debt which will be due to the citizens of the United States from France, in case of her recognising the claims which we shall make in their behalf, and a debt which might arise from a loan by the government of the United States to that of France, during the war. The one is the result of an arrest of their property without their consent; the other would be a voluntary act of the government of the United States, and a breach of their neutrality. There is an additional objection to the latter: if the United States should make such a loan, it would give too much reason to suppose that their government had consented, in a collusive manner, to the capture of the vessels of their citizens, and had thus been furnishing France with supplies to carry on the war. Our instructions are express, not to stipulate for any aids to France, either directly or indirectly, during

the war. With respecct to a secret stipulation, a loan cannot be made without an act of the legislature: but if the Executive were adequate to it, we have had an instance of an injunction of secrecy on members of the Senate, on an important subject, which one of the members thought himself warranted in publishing in the newspapers; and of frequent instances of secrets which have otherwise escaped: secrecy, in this instance, might therefore be considered, if the measure was in itself admissible, as being impracticable. General Marshall observed, that we had considered the subject with great solicitude, and were decidedly of opinion, that we could not, under any form, make a loan which could be used during the war; that we could not tell what our government would do, if on the spot; but were perfectly clear, that without additional orders, we could not do what France requested. Mr. Gerry observed, that the government and nation of the United States, as well as ourselves, were earnestly solicitous to restore friendship between the two republicks; that as general Marshall had stated, we could not say what our government would do, if on the spot; but if this proposition met the wishes of the government of France, general Marshall and himself had agreed immediately to embark for the United States, and lay before our government the existing state of things here, as it respected our nation, to enable them to determine whether any, and what other measures on their part were necessary. Mr. Talleyrand made no observation on this proposition: but inquired whether we expected soon to receive orders. Mr. Gerry mentioned an answer he had received to a letter sent by him in November; and general Marshall stated, that our first despatches were sent on board two vessels at Amsterdam, on the 28th of November; from which Mr. Talleyraud could form as just an idea as we could, when an answer might be expected: but he did not think it probable one would arrive before a month to come.General Marshall told him, we knew that our government had not received our despatches on the 8th of January; and we could not tell when they might be received. He asked whether our intelligence came through England? General Marshall answered that it did not; and general Pinckney said, that American papers as late as the 8th of January mentioned the fact.