our citizens. He learned "who was who" strictly on the basis of individual performance. Equally important, individual performance had to be matched with evident willingness to produce a unified city administration able to be responsive to the growing needs of our citizens. This was no easy policy, for we were then barely 2 years removed from a century of weak authority and diffuse responsibility, in which decisions emanated from as many directions as there were sources of influence in the city.

Mindful, moreover, of the special powers of the Congress over the city, I noticed that he stressed sound management far more than adherence to particular policies—an approach I personally applaud when it is practiced by many Members of Congress, including a growing number in both the Senate and House District Committees.

In this process, I observed that Egil Krogh has a turn of mind that is rational, that reflects maturity, good judgment, humility, humor, and a tremendous capacity for hard work.

And never did I encounter any other basis of judgment, on those occasions when he cared to discuss a matter, than the kind of reasoning and devotion to fairness I would have hoped ideally to find not just in a member of my own political party, but in any man or woman who finds himself making key decisions affecting the public interest.

I respectfully add, Mr. Chairman, that all this was at a time when I had commenced a very satisfying practice at law, with no intention whatsoever of returning to government. But, an opening appeared unexpectedly on the city council and Mr. Krogh suggested I fill it. I confess it was the fact that he requested it that weighed most heavily in the difficult decision to abridge my homelife and worry my partners, in order to devote the enormous time required to do the council's work effectively.

Naturally, a chance to serve the community in this special way was a rare opportunity one could hardly have rejected, but I testify, Mr. Chairman, that it was my exposure to Mr. Krogh, to the way he approached problems, to the regard he has for his own service, which tipped the balance and I have never regretted that decision. While making that decision, moreover, I was never asked to declare my view on any public issue, and I have never since been asked to do or say or vote other than as I pleased.

Let me relate, then, as one who is in opposition at the other end of the avenue, what I believe Members of Congress and their staffs may expect from Egil Krogh.

Bud Krogh is one of those people who seem naturally good at big government; one of those who seem to recognize that no one has all the power, and government itself can end up powerless unless most of those with a share of power treat each other civilly and are responsive to leadership. His obvious intelligence is neither warped by arrogance nor shadowed by political cant.

Bud Krogh is political. Yet, there is hardly a person in this chamber who would fail to understand that I mean that as a high compliment to him for the man I have observed thinks in terms of public service and deals with owners by rules political people rightfully observe.

Thus, I have never known him to say one thing to one side and another thing to the opposition. Instead he is strong-minded, with enough self control to avoid costly misunderstandings and accidents

which generate distrust and prolong decisions. I have never been misled in anything he has said to me, or, more important, failed to say. Moreover, I do not believe that good record is any accident. And my own experience is certainly no isolated example. I believe Members of Congress and their staffs will encounter the same qualities and come to share my view.

If I have been describing to you an exceptional young man of strong moral character, it is only as a prelude to the experience I believe you and your staffs will share soon enough as you work with him. And some, fortunate enough in time to enjoy a respected friendship as well, will detect the understated but firm religious conviction which is among the roots of Mr. Krogh's ability to work as well as he does.

Finally, I expect that as Bud Krogh goes about his new job, Republicans will take unpardonable pride and Democrats will wish he had made a different choice earlier in his life. Some Democrats may even try to make him change his mind, for it is never too late to be on our side and some of us don't give up easily. After all, he is only 33. Meanwhile, some may wish to challenge his present title of the city's fastestor at least its most durable-jogger, for that is the sport through which he keeps physically fit.

I am certain you will find, as I have, that he is indeed intellectually and emotionally fit-and up to any challenge in that regard.

To me, Mr. Chairman, Bud Krogh is the kind of executive government gets when it gets lucky: able to be firm without foolish pride, loyal to his own leadership, and above all, concerned that decisions in his corner of the administration are in the public interest.

It is no pleasure for me to see Bud Krogh move, for my family and I certainly are not moving. And among the reasons we are staying is the legacy of leadership in our city which he has had so strong and sure a hand in building. If his successor displays anything like the intelligence and judgment Mr. Krogh will bring to the Department of Transportation, we shall not begrudge our loss, however much we shall envy their good fortune * * * at least until home rule.

Mr. Chairman, I am grateful for this opportunity to speak in behalf of my friend. Were he also of my party, I could not possible support his nomination with greater confidence, nor urge his confirmation with any deeper personal conviction.

Thank you.

Mr. CHAIRMAN. Well, Mr. Meyers, we thank you for your testimony. What is the relation between the Department of Transportation and your transportation problems within the District of Columbia? Is it advisory? Do they have any responsibility or authority in this field or do you just discuss matters with them?

Mr. MEYERS. Mr. Chairman, I regret that my own familiarity with it is almost as diffuse as what you report personally because I am not on the committee that gets with it except in one respect and that is investigating when they have a cave-in. I do not believe the Department enters it idrectly. The major transportation effort in the area-I'm glad it is regional-the major effort in the region is the combined effort of a board represented by members of the jurisdictions in the region. They do use the expertise and I believe they also occasionally use seed money provided by the Department.

Mr. KROGH. That is correct.

Mr. MEYERS. And in that respect the Council is represented on the board. That is the Washington Metropolitan Area Transportation Board.

The CHAIRMAN. That is the point I am making. You do call on the Department of Transportation for expertise, for advice, and you do constantly meet, do you not, with their experts in the transportation field?

Mr. MEYERS. They do; yes. The board does.

The CHAIRMAN. The reason I ask, too, is because the nominee will bring to his new job some experience with the District.

Mr. MEYERS. He certainly will.

The CHAIRMAN. That will be all to the good with the problems you have in the District in transportation.

Mr. MEYERS. It certainly will, Mr. Chairman. We know that in this respect we are not losing his involvement and as we are in a-I hate to use the pun word-we are in a transitory stage right now going to what has been a history of automobile transportation to urban mass transit and catching up with other cities and we will need that guid

ance.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you. Any questions of Mr. Meyers?

Senator COTTON. No, thank you.

Senator Cook. Thank you, Mr. Meyers. I know Bud appreciates that statement very, very much.

Mr. MEYERS. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

All right. We will now hear from the nominee. He has filed his financial statement. He filed his biography in full. It was covered by my colleague and the chairman is familiar with his biography and his past experience and the chairman highly recommends his educational ability having come from the right place. Before we proceed with some general questions on the role of the Transportation Department and the role that the Under Secretary will have on the matters they have down there, do you have a statement that you'd like to read to the committee?

Mr. KROGH. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, I do.

The CHAIRMAN. Pull the mikes in as close as you can so we can hear you. All right.

STATEMENT OF EGIL KROGH, JR.

Mr. KROGH. Mr. Chairman, Senator Cotton, members of the Senate Commerce Committee, it is an honor for me to be here this morning as the President's nominee to be Under Secretary of Transportation. I am keenly conscious that the management of the Department of Transportation is a solemn public trust. Countless human lives are at stake every day in the safe operation of our Nation's transportation system, and the well-being of our society as a whole is inseparable from the ability of that system to move people and goods quickly and efficiently from place to place. I feel privileged to have an opportunity to assist President Nixon and Secretary Brinegar in carrying out this

trust.

In presenting my thinking to this committee today and in entertaining your questions, I hope I am commencing what will be a close and

mutually beneficial relationship with the Congress in the development and administration of our national transportation policies.

My work during the past 4 years as a member of the White House staff and later as a member of the Domestic Council staff has included many opportunities to grapple with some of the more difficult problems confronting the United States today. My job has been to pull together the best thinking and expertise available on an issue or problem, to identify the various options which the President has, and to put those options in a form ready for his consideration. As Under Secretary of the Department of Transportation, I would try to perform a similar function for Mr. Brinegar. This would necessitate close liaison with members of Congress during early stages of policy development.

I would like to describe briefly my activities while serving the President on the White House and Domestic Council staffs.

In law enforcement, my work involved assisting in the development of national programs to cut organized crime and street crime.

In narcotics control, I have served as coordinator of a major Federal Government effort in 59 countries throughout the world to stop the flow of narcotics and dangerous drugs into the United States. Additionally, I participated in the legislative creation of the Special Action Office for Drug Abuse Prevention, an initiative which passed the Senate and House without a dissenting vote.

In District of Columbia affairs, I have served as the White House liaison, providing as much federal support as possible to the city in its handling of such problems as crime control and narcotics addiction and in the city's pursuit of more college and vocational education programs and a more effective, efficient city government.

In transportation, I participated in the early consultations on Amtrak and have participated in discussions on measures to curb the hijacking menace. However, my primary transportation activity has centered here in the national capital region in the effort to develop a balanced transportation system.

In these varied activities, I have been privileged to work with many outstanding people who have given so much of themselves to make government work better.

Mr. Chairman, Senator Cotton, members of the committee: If I am confirmed, I would welcome the opportunity of working closely with you in the hectic days ahead, to share ideas in advance, and to develop them together. I hope to take advantage of your experience in the many areas of transportation which are new to me but in which I will seek to perform up to the highest standard of excellence and integrity. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. Any questions of the nominee, Senator Cotton, on his statement?

Senator COTTON. Only one observation, and that is to compliment you on an excellent statement, Mr. Krogh.

Mr. KROGH. Thank you, sir.

Senator COTTON. I am pleased that you stated it would be your policy to work with us in advance. I don't know whose fault it is, but there has been a tendency in the Department of Transportation to be very late in getting recommendations to the committee. The result has been that various bills and measures have been introduced by members of this

Committee, including the chairman, on which reports have been requested of the Department only to encounter delay in developing a position between the Department of Transportation and the White House.

It then has been my rather unpleasant task to have the Secretary call me up and ask me to go to the chairman of the committee to ask him to defer hearings or reopen hearings or defer actions until the people downtown-namely, the Department and the White Housecan develop a position on pending legislation. The chairman has been most patient with me whenever he could, but there is a limit.

Therefore, for my own personal peace of mind, as well as the more important aspect of trying to work together and accomplish something, I am delighted to hear you say that you are going to work with us in advance. I hope your presence in the Department and your relations as having come from the White House staff, will enable us to get the position of the administration so as to be able to give it consideration early and with reasonable promptness. I hope you will dedicate yourself, among other things, to that end.

Mr. KROGH. I will do that, Senator Cotton.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, if the other members of the committee will wait a little bit for general questions on the Department itself, I would like to proceed with another matter here and discuss that first.

Is that all right with members of the committee? All right. Now, Mr. Krogh, because of your alleged associations with Mr. Liddy and Mr. Hunt, two persons now standing trial for their involvement in the so-called Watergate case, I would like to ask certain questions of you in order to determine: (1) Whether you were associated with Mr. Liddy and Mr. Hunt, and (2) if so, the nature and the duration of that association in order to ascertain whether there is anything in your previous record of Government service that would reflect negatively on your qualifications to be Under Secretary of Transportation. Now, do you have any objections to pursuing such questions? Mr. KROGH. No, sir; I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. Do you have any objections to being sworn?
Mr. KROGH. No, sir; I do not.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. If you will stand and raise your right hand, Mr. Krogh. Do you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

Mr. KROGH. I do.

The CHAIRMAN. Now, I have certain questions and the committee members may want to follow through with them if they wish, but I think they will lay the foundation for the testimony you are about to give.

The first question is, Mr. Krogh, have you been associated with Mr. Liddy and Mr. Hunt?

Mr. KROGH. Yes, sir: I have.

The CHAIRMAN. Were Mr. Hunt and Mr. Liddy members of the socalled, and I use this term advisedly, Plumbers Organization as it is commonly known?

Mr. KROGH. Yes, sir: they were.

The CHAIRMAN. And what are the plumbers?

Mr. KROGH. The plumbers was a group that was put together for the purpose of doing what it could to prevent the unauthorized disclosure of sensitive, classified national security information.